The blog of Gow (Tannicus), fiction and ramblings of the Coyote.
Published on September 14, 2004 By ShoZan In Politics
Many KNOW about the release of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 on DVD on Oct. 5th.

Few KNOW about the release of Fahrenhype 9/11, the rebuttal to Fahrenheit 9/11 and Michael Moore on DVD on Oct. 5th.

So if you really want to be an indenpendant thinker instead of mindless automaton, watch both, and compare, than see which one was true, but don't stick to one because it just supports your party...anyways before I get too deep, just watch both with an OPEN MIND, mind you, Open not closed, OPEN, OPEN, OPEN, than see for the REAL truth for what it is.

Link to Fahrenhype 9/11, has a trailer in Quicktime and Windows Media

Link Mikey's site with info on his 911 film.


Also in Fahrenhype 9/11, Sgt. Peter Damon and Sarasota School Principal Tose-Rigell speak out about their appearances in Mikey's movie.

As for Mikey's weight problem, I as being a former United States Army Specialist on Active Duty, have this to say to him:

"Before you continue to save other people by showing the "truth", you should first save yourself from an problem that could cause you to suffer from ailments that go along with that weight, lose weight, get healthy, than continue on, that is all."

Comments (Page 5)
6 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6 
on Sep 15, 2004

Counterpoint:


the first link you provided offers only quoted opinions


the second link is to a forum (with older posts archived elsewhere).  it doesnt directly respond to the question i posed.  however since that question is really offtopic, let's drop it for the time being.  


on Sep 15, 2004
Why can't we just accept people for what they are? Even if Moore was skinny , he probably wouldn't be a handsome man , then someone would be saying he's
ugly , like they did to Chelsea Clinton. The Clintons did a better job with Chelsea than the Bush's did with the twins!


That is my prerogative not your own, my goal is to cut the fat or at least have people attempt to lose weight. I know some cannot simply lose weight without Medical intervention, but they do attempt to lose weight, I take action and state that we should look at getting Americans to lose weight by a proper diet and exercise, trust me if you think I am bad, you would simply loathe my former .

If America is stupid, than also we should take action to educate and inform with both viewpoints on the subject just not one person's viewpoint, we don't need to keep hammering home the small picture and try to apply that to the big picture, the big picture should be hammered home than educating people on the smaller picture once they have grasped the concept of the former.

As for Dennis Hastert if I met him, I would say simply this:
"Sir, have you tried to lose weight because I think it would be in your best interest to lose weight, because with yourself being overweight, no rudeness intended, that you may suffer from health risks that you would not suffer from with your weight under control. To be overweight is hurting the American image that all Americans are overweight, but in reality we are not, it is just when compared to a similar nation people have less to eat, like India and China, than they can eat here, but let's not let the world even think we are overweight by you losing those pounds, sir. Also would you sign this bill of mine proposing Gravedigger's Day a National Holiday into law, thanks."

the second link is to a forum (with older posts archived elsewhere). it doesnt directly respond to the question i posed. however since that question is really offtopic, let's drop it for the time being.


Sorry about that should have included the Bibliography link on Vietnam done by Edwin E. Moïse, just trying to offer a different perspective, my reason for finding Kerry's testimony wrong, is because Senator McCain believes it was wrong, and McCain being a POW, well you can read up on about McCain's feelings, not to mention other POWs don't agree with Kerry's Testimony, and even officers during that time frame.

Link to Edwin E Moise Vietnam Bibliography
Link to Edwin's Pictures from Vietnam

Just an FYI

But yeah I will consider it dropped, and if the discussion is wanted to be continued, either you or me can start an article about the discussion on Vietnam, though I will have to ask my Uncle, Close Friends, and Family Friends about it since I was not born until 1981.

Bush got his undergraduate degree from Yale. He did not graduate with honours. He also holds an MBA from Harvard. I am unaware of his standing in that class. Bush's Yale transcript is available online (I have provided a link), and you can see for yourself the mistake in thinking he graduated with honours from that school


I stand corrected he was a C Average Student, still better than your average American I guess, don't know for sure.

Who was the stupidest U.S. president? [LINK] Little informational reply from Cecil on the question of:

Dear Cecil:
I understand that Thomas Jefferson was our smartest president. Who was our stupidest? Second stupidest? A related pair of questions: Did Yale not have an admissions department in the 1960s? If it did, doesn't it owe the country an apology? --Chris Lamb the elder, Baltimore

AND
Dear Cecil:
I realize there's probably no way the following can be determined with utter certainty. But in the best judgment of presidential scholars, have any of our chief executives--in addition to Ulysses S. Grant and George W. Bush, I mean--been alcoholics? --David English, Somerville, Massachusetts


Just FYI information for everybody, for the most part it seems unbiased, but than again if either side does not have their favorite candidate lifted on a pedestal above the others, than it is biased against them.

That's it for now.

As for Bush - he has already proven that anything can be "bought" by the right people. That's why he had Guard duty. How can someone go to College and be so stupid?


Well you can educate people but it doesn't mean they learn something, or gain integrity, key word here. I do not believe that either Kerry nor Bush have INTEGRITY, they sell out to the highest bidder, even if that is the Opinion of the American Public, but what did you expect it is after POLITICS, and anyone with Integrity in Politics died out a long time ago. G E O R G E I mean seriously there has not been anybody in recent history that has integrity in politics I wonder who that last person was. W A S H I N G T O N
on Sep 15, 2004
Is that why Moore resorted to editing what people said in a way in which they condemn? Because he wanted to get honest answers and not because he wanted to make money?


Messy , I'll bet you are another person who hasn't seen ANY of Moore's films.

Moore didn't want to make money on "Roger and Me" - he raised the money to make it , to show the plight of Americans being laid off.

If you are against that, there's something seriously wrong with you.

If he's made money off of films , it's because he's darned talented , and people go see it because of the reviews , and it goes from there.
I guess YOU don't expect to be paid for your work. But with films , there's no guarantee he'll make money.
It's because people love his work that he gets paid , and that's how it should be.

Now, I have seen 3 Michael Moore films. I haven't read any of his books , even though I hear they 're hillarious.
But, I haven't seen alot of editing to get a desired result - HE LETS THE PEOPLE TALK , AND THEY SAY WHAT THEY WANT.

IT'S THE SAME WITH FAHRENHEIT 9 /11 . He lets a woman who is gung ho war talk , and doesn't put a spin on it.
I don't see how any one who hasn't seen his movies can judge - your hype are the only lies associated with Moore!

Moore even withdrew from the Academy Award documentary race just on the chance that he can show it on TV - which he doubts - just ON THE CHANCE!

Prove to me what you've done in this lifetime for Americans that tops what Moore has done - with the TRUTH , all you have is your LIES.
on Sep 15, 2004


Another lttle tidbit about a Moore movie , and how people dig themselves into holes THEMSELVES.

There's a segment in "Bowling for Columbine" where they kind of take on the saying " Guns don't kill people, people kill people ."

There was a hunter who strapped a gun to his dog , and the dog shot the man.

So, Moore is interviewing this law enforcement official , and asked , tongue in cheek , if any charges were pressed against the dog.

Most intelligent people would look at Moore and raise an eyebrow , and say , aw c'mon now.

But the guy , in all seriousness , states something like " No , we don't have any laws against dogs shooting people "

It is just a crackup , and Moore didn't have to edit a thing. The man is brilliant.
on Sep 15, 2004

IT'S THE SAME WITH FAHRENHEIT 9 /11 . He lets a woman who is gung ho war talk , and doesn't put a spin on it.
I don't see how any one who hasn't seen his movies can judge - your hype are the only lies associated with Moore!


So, I take it that the people who have complained that they were misrepresented in the film are liars? Well, I guess they are. They're not filmmakers after all.


Prove to me what you've done in this lifetime for Americans that tops what Moore has done - with the TRUTH , all you have is your LIES.


What that logic, we can't really question the Bushes, Bill Gates, or P. Diddy. They've all done more than either of us has done too.

on Sep 16, 2004
I don't see how any one who hasn't seen his movies can judge - your hype are the only lies associated with Moore!


liveletlive

I seen the movie and three of his others.

In a comic and entertainment point of view its funny to me too. Michael Moore has always been good at satire and good editing. But in my opinion this may wind up hurting Kerry more then helping.

Michael Moore may not be lying but he is not telling the full truth either. The next time you watch that movie of half truths and incomplete interviews you will hear him say that "only one member of congress has an enlisted son or daughter presently in the military". Over 15 others have had children who served as enlisted in the past and another 36 presently have children that are officers presently in service. I guess that having your children serving, as officers don't count to Mister Moore.

The last time I checked its the individuals choice to join the military, not the parents. It was nice of him to badger only congressmen who had no children over the age of eighteen either.

That is only one example of Moore fast editing work and one-sided views. Check out my post "Boiling over Fahrenheit", that post gives descriptions of other dirty tricks that Moore has used in the past to miss lead the movie goers. He claims to be a great defend of the common soldier. But he has given nothing to them but attempts to lower their moral. He has not given one dime to any soldier's charities. I'm not saying that he has too. But when he edits interviews to sound totally different then what the soldier originally meant or what the original interview was for, and steps all over their families causing more anguish just for profits and a political agenda, then he should at least show some sign of really caring.

My Two Cents
on Sep 16, 2004



He wasn't talking about the past. He was talking about Iraq.

This is what people do. They take what Moore says, and go off in a completely different direction , just to call him a liar.

He said Iraq. Not the gulf war. Not Vietnam. Not Grenada.
on Sep 16, 2004

Reply #67 By: liveletlive - 9/16/2004 3:09:28 PM



He wasn't talking about the past. He was talking about Iraq.

This is what people do. They take what Moore says, and go off in a completely different direction , just to call him a liar.

He said Iraq. Not the gulf war. Not Vietnam. Not Grenada.


You seem to be missing the fact that his last and second to last movies have been debunked by more than one person.
on Sep 16, 2004
He said Iraq. Not the gulf war. Not Vietnam. Not Grenada.

Not Panama, Not Bosnia, Not Military Service before Iraq, what about Afghanistan or how about Somalia.

So I guess it doesn't count if they fought there or died there, what asinine logic that is.

The Past and the Present influence the future, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it end of story.
on Sep 16, 2004
on Sep 16, 2004





So I guess it doesn't count if they fought there or died there, what asinine logic that is.

The Past and the Present influence the future, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it end of story.


You completely missed the point. Big surprise! ( Rolling eyes )

Michael Moore walked up to members of our Congress and asked if they would like to send their children to Iraq.

Since they are sending everyone elses' sons and daughters there , why not there own? Aside from the precious looks on their faces,
It was found that only one of them had a child in service in Iraq, and it figures , it's a Democrat's child.

So , one of them, at a later date , gets all upset , calling Moore a liar. There are those of us with family members in Iraq!

Once again , that's NOT what Moore said , that's not what his statement was. Moore said "child" , as in their own offspring.

So, since you guys can't seem to figure this one out:

If you have a child of your own , that is YOUR child. It is not your Cousin, it is not your uncle, it is not your Aunt , it is not your nephew.
Those other people are your RELATIVES , they are not your children ...

Got it now?





on Sep 16, 2004
Yet somehow the Bush-Cheney ticket is convincing Americans that only a Republican administration can handle national security. If John Kerry wins, Dick Cheney warned: "The danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating." The choice is simple: Vote Republican, or die. And voters are buying it.


I got corrected on that by Draginol, listen to the full soundbyte before you start trying to judge that.

In the end, 27 pages of the report on the role of the Saudis in 9/11 were classified by the White House and not released to the public. According to Graham, the Bush administration may have censored the material because it did not want the public to be aware of Saudi support for the 9/11 terrorists.


Only an idiot would not have thought Saudia Arabia was not behind it, at least partially, because the Hijackers had Saudi Passports, duh.

Once more this man Mikey has (though I am not judging F9/11 here) just taken soundbytes and snippets plus some records that well because this man is Saudia Arabian he must be supporting terrorist, so far the character that I see from Mikey is he is a racist deep down, anybody who is not white or siding with his viewpoint are unjustified and stupid, last time I checked there was more than ONE AMERICAN working for the GOOD of America, but he fails to see that, you want a better government get the DAMN SOCIALISM out of it, one party is becoming the National Socailism Party the other Communist Socailism party both seek to make government bigger, and Mikey is only helping to fuel the side of Socialism instead of rooting out all Socialism from the government, so far from what I have seen and read about Mikey even on Mikey's site shows that ultimately he cares about two things, himself and appeasing his audience so he can make money. This makes me even more leery of seeing F9/11 if the man uses half-truths to make a point no matter how sound that point is, it is still only a half-truth which is a tactic designed and used by Joeseph Goebbels.

Plus his even using George Orwell's name as a reference is sick, he does not deserve to use it when he backs political parties and ideas that promote SOCIALISM, something that George Orwell was deadset against, if you couldn't tell from his books Animal Farm and 1984, George loathed Socialism and tried to warn the ignorant masses as best he could, but alas his message falls on deaf ears who use his message to hammer home their side of socialism, and that is the bottom line that you can bet your ass on.

on Sep 16, 2004



Somehow the link thing got stick and there was a message that it didn't go through. It's all the same one.

When I posted again , all of the links came up - go figure!
on Sep 16, 2004
You seek to anger me with half-truths and attempts at twisting the english language, but it won't work on me, for I can see past almost all rhetoric, which is why I don't agree with Bush, and don't aggree with Kerry, they talk about GRANDIOSE plans, but offer little on the substance of going about actually using that plan.

I got your point and yet it is only half-true and one-sided, BIG SUPRISE, you can't see anything but the small picture.

WAKE UP AUTOMATON AND SEE THE BIG PICTURE AND UNTIL YOU DO I WILL NEVER AGAIN REPLY TO ANY OF YOUR COMMENTS, BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY HALF-TRUE OR EVEN FALSE BUT NOT FULLY TRUE, I DON'T LIKE TALKING WITH PARROTS WHO DON'T THINK.

SO UNTIL YOU WAKE UP AUTOMATON DON'T EXPECT ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM ME.
on Sep 16, 2004
A Wiser man than myself has enlightened me to the fact that I don't know what I simply do not know, take that advice.

When you realize that you don't know what you simply do not know, you begin to realize that somethings you have been misinformed in by those who claim they know but do not know, and those are the first steps to true wisdom and knowledge.

6 PagesFirst 3 4 5 6